Tigrent / Legacy Professional Property Investor course - my review!

[NickBoaz]

Hi all,

 

I have been chatting in a few threads on here and some may know, and have expressed an interest in my up-coming 3 day Tigrent Professional Property Investment course. Well, I have just returned from it and would like to share with you all our experience (our, as in myself and my fiancée).

 

Quick intro; I have renovated my own house successfully, in for a profit should I sell, cashflow should I rent, it didn't fall down etc etc. My fiancée owns her own home which cash flows. Both of us want to invest in property for the long term and for income to be able to enjoy life to the full. We have no further investments.

 

I saw the course advertised on Facebook last spring (2015) as the "Robbie Fowler Property Investment Training Course". Naturally I laughed out loud at the thought. And I still cringe at that thought... His name has never been mentioned or alluded to on the course; all marketing.

The advert kept appearing, with the same comments of "c***", "coke snorter", "easy with his millions" etc etc. It was those comments that drove me to go to the free 2 hours evening seminar. I am not a hater. What did I have to lose? 2 hours of my evening. Not a lot really.

 

We went along fully expecting the up-sell. The up-sell was the 3 day course for £997 with a "free" tablet full of information and a "free" telephone "consultation" with an investor. (There was of course a 14 day cooling off period during which we did our due diligence checks on the company etc etc)

 

So the main course;

 

Firstly, we had initially opted for dates in Oxford, which got moved back twice, before being hosted in a hotel in.... Reading.... So we opted for a date in Milton Keynes (this weekend gone) instead. Some bum twitching going on as there is a 12 month window in which to take the course. The cynic in me believed this was a tactic employed to reduced the number of attendees by way of their 12 month window lapsing....??

 

Right, down to it then!

Turn up Friday 8.45, tea coffee etc, sign in, friendly meet and greet, usual stuff. 

 

Get down to the learning bit.

 

The main speaker was really good. Clearly very passionate and knowledgeable and his subject. A few corny jokes and some audience participation etc. All to be expected! 

The first morning was proper learning stuff. All very interesting. The afternoon was all about how you would fail in the property game unless you have a mentor to hold your hand. It was not direct, but all in the course material. 

 

It was pretty much the same for the next 2 days. Mornings were really good info about strategies, running the numbers, sourcing and so on. There was a lot about having the right mindset, why you want to do it, getting us to self-motivate etc. All a good techniques to sell us the more expensive packages. These started at £12k, and went up to about £34k. Did we buy? Read on.

 

We had plenty of opportunities all the way through the 3 days to talk one on one with the speaker and his "team" of 2. They were all very pleasant and helpful to the point of running numbers for us and advising us where to go from our specific circumstances.

 

What I did learn from the 3 days is that they corroborated everything I had learned myself, for free, on this forum, the podcasts, the one meet up I've been to, and the various books I've read. I should state now that I am in no way working for the Property Hub or endorsing it! It is purely my personal experience.

 

So my fiancée and I find ourselves saying to each other, why spend £24k (the package they recommended for us) when I know I can learn it all for free??? 

 

As time went on the one to one conversations became "So what further courses are you signing up to?" the answer to which was "we're not". Essentially their justification, as demonstrated by several (admittedly stunning) case studies, is that your first deal or two, that would be with your personal mentor, would easily cover the cost of the training.

I don't doubt it's possible. I don't doubt the success stories of others. Was there a strong confidence from them that we would definitely cover that with such apparent ease? No, we didn't feel so.

 

In addition, they tell you you can get to financial freedom within 2 years if you take their courses. If we didn't, on average it would take us 15 years. I don't know where they get that figure from, but hey?!

 

So we did not sign up. Of about 24 attendees this weekend, we estimated about half signed up for further training courses. I wish them well and I'm sure, having been there this weekend and hearing it all, they will do very well. It is so very dependant on your circumstances! I won't bore you with all my thoughts on that right now!

 

Sadly, however, we did leave this afternoon with a bitter taste. When we were leaving we thanked all the tutors there, as you do when you are polite and courteous people(!), but one tutor just hammered into us that we would fail. We would lose all our money. We didn't know what we were doing. We would seek the wrong advice. The market was going to crash. 

It was a real shame and the others were very pleasant and accepted we hadn't signed up. And like when you choose not to buy a mobile phone from a salesman, they shake your hand and smile. (And once you've left call you names...).

 

To sum up, 50/50 real learning vs direct/indirect up-selling.

Do I regret spending £997? No, and not just to save face. I did learn a lot of tip bits, and some important number crunching ideas. Can I find those on the internet for free? Most likely! Do I see the value in spending £30k+ on further courses? I can, I really can for the right person in the right situation. But it is not for us.

 

On the way home we did agree we felt it was a shame there was not an option to buy further 3 day courses on specific subjects, priced the same as this intro course. (Each package they were selling included a number of 3 day courses, so seems feasible.) Would we have bought one of those? Maybe. But without having the option it's hard to say.

 

The main thing we both feel is very motivated coming out of it and do feel inspired to really make property work for us. 

 

 

[Jambone]

Hi Nick,

 

Thanks for some great feedback!

 

I've personally never wanted to attend a course and i'd rather spend hours on end on my computer getting the info myself! - but can definitely see the use in reasonably priced courses for people with little time and who are confused where to start and need guidance. 

 

I'm am shocked that half the people signed up to the the £12k+ courses. As the Rob's say, you'd be better of using that money as a deposit and truly learning. As you mentioned, £1000 3 days courses based on more specific strategies seem like a good niche that there probably is a good market for.

 

Are there any real gems that you took away from the course that you want to share? 

 

All the best

 

James

[NickBoaz]

Hi James,

 

Yes, I thought they'd get a couple of people signing up, but the sales technique was so convincing and they made it so appealing that it really made you think...! But you have to stay on the fence and think about the alternative options!!! They had a couple of guests come in and tell us their stories about how doing the course, spending £25k, changed their lives! "Amazing!", "Best thing I ever did" and so on, you can picture it!

But of course there is no-one there to say "I chose not to do the course and spent my £25k on property and I am doing just as well"...

 

I'd like to take this from it, and from my £997: My review is an honest and unbiased opinion that I am happy to share to help others decide. I am a level headed individual. I will happily speak directly to anyone, on the phone or face to face, to tell them more about my opinions of the course, and the facts around the contents of the course. I will not dissuade anyone from going, I won't encourage anyone to attend, but I will share my thoughts.

 

Note; the contents of the course is subject to copywrite and therefore I cannot put myself in a position of breaching that copywrite by disclosing the contents of the course.

 

There were a few gems yes, I'll have to go through my notes though!

 

One thing that I'd like to know whether it is true or not, this stuck in my head;

Can an auctioneer can legally take bids from an inanimate object in the room?

This came from advice buying at auctions: sit and the back and watch the room. If you sit at the front you cannot see who you are bidding against. The auctioneer will take bids from objects to get the lot to it's reserve, you bid next and end up buying having only bid against yourself.  I can't imagine many reputable auction houses dong this??

[Jambone]

Hi Nick,

Yes auction houses are allowed to do it. It's called 'Bidding off the wall". The can legally bid upto 1 bid before the reserve is met, that way none of their bids are binding as if none else were to bid, the reserve is never met. This video comes to mind

I tend to get to the auctions well in advance of my lot so I can get a feel of it. I usually sit in a chair as near to the back as I can, then circulate every so often to different spots. A few lots before mine is up, I'll head to the very back corner of the room so that I can survey then room and not miss who's bidding against me.

I've been to quite a few auctions and only ever think I've seen 1 auction house do it. At that auction I think they were using one of their staff in the corner to bid. That same person was however doing their telephone bidding for some external bidders too, but I believe the auctioneer is the one that usually deals with the proxy bids on their books, so it caught my eye as to why was he bidding when it was slow and not on the phone.

All the best

James

[NickBoaz]

Oh. My. God!!! That was painful to watch. They bidding against themselves?! What??!!

[Guest]

Wow, that video was a painful video to watch!!

 

Nick,

 

Thanks for your feedback on the Tigrent learning course. I have also been to one of the free demos in the Summer, which was advertised as being Martin Roberts' course. The sales technique is very good and I was thinking of signing up at a later date. I also know other people who have taken the courses with Tigrent and who are doing quite well with it. However, I also know a lot of people not taking these big courses and are also doing very well.

 

Now that I am a bit further on in my study and personal education through talking to people, reading books, internet research and of course all the property hub podcasts, books and information, I would think a lot harder about whether to go on one of these larger expensive courses.

 

I understand that they do give you lots of support on an ongoing basis, including access to Facebook groups and professionals on the end of the phone. As you say, I think it all comes down to where you are on your journey and whether you need this. A lot of what the big courses are selling you is accountability, but if you are very self motivated anyway it may not be necessary.

 

I have instead spent a bit of money attending the PIN and PPN meetups (£20 each time), also now the Property Hub meetups, where I have been able to build up a lot of contacts in a short amount of time. It also gives you the chance to hear from people doing specific courses for subjects you may be more interested in (for a fraction of the price) and you get to chat to other people who have taken the courses and whether they found them to be of benefit.

 

In future, I am likely to go on other courses, but it will be a very specific course to learn a particular part of the industry......for example, Commercial to Residential conversions, interior design for a HMO, land development, etc. and not one of these wide ranging, self motivating courses.

 

I hope this helps.....Also, more than happy to have a chat with you some more to give you my thoughts on this and information on what other resources I have used.

 

Many thanks,

 

Alex

[NickBoaz]

Thanks for your comments, Alex.

It sounds like we are on a similar wave length!

 

Yes, there will be far, far more people who are successful in property who have NOT been on a multi-thousand pound course, than have.

 

As for on going support, the contract with your mentor is for 3 consecutive days, then 30 days at the end of the phone and on email. How much of a portfolio can you build up in that time, as a rookie...???

 

I will always be interested in learning, and am happy to pay for good education where appropriate. But for us, we are happy to take action now, and get going. That it often the best way to learn!

[Chris Johnson]

I have a similar experience , having gone against my better judgement and attended the 3 day course in the Summer in Exeter. I speak as an established Financial Services practitioner who , like one or two other respondents prefer to research things themselves. However having no specific experience within Property i really felt i needed a launch pad into the community and the £997 was arguably a reasonable spend. However taking things further will cost you £10,000 minimum with the  sky as the upper limit . In my view there is nothing you could really learn from the 'mentorship' process than you could learn a million times over from the Property Hub resource. It was telling that the people who signed up for additional courses were , with the greatest of respect , a little less rounded and a little more desperate in terms of their own Financial Situation. I met one Widow who had significant resources at her disposal but who had never worked independently and clearly she was fodder and from the off she was targeted by the team on hand . Another Lady was an Immigrant who over the course of the two days resorted to 'begging' the money from other participants . Another Young couple , the Main Breadwinner who had just been invalided out of the Army trie to arrange a Loan from migrant to finance their next steps. Frankly, those of us who were more sceptical ran a mile .   I did find the cumulative predictable sales spin tiresome with one Lady coordinator reciting the mantra 'Ker-ching' at every opportunity. presumably to whet our appetite for more priceless nuggets to grease our wheels to prosperity...Please !!!i So, in summary, there are a few good tips but as the author correctly states these are far from the main focus of the three days. They are very careful not to provide copies of slides or information you can take away. the material they do release is basic and easily obtained elsewhere. No doubt there are successful people in the organisation who can provide a level of education but there is really is no reason to shell out the sort of money they charge. How much is the Property Hub Magazine / Podcast ?      

[NickBoaz]

Cheers Johno.

We had the "Ker-ching" thing going on too... ugh.

[propertysam]

Thanks for providing such an insightful review, great to hear what truly goes on!

[IanAinslie]

Thanks for taking the time to post an honest review.

 

Personally, if I'd invested £1000 in a course and about 50% of the time was spent with hard sell trying me to spend as much as most people earn in a year to get the full information, I'd have been livid. But you're satisfied and that's what counts.

 

After having read up on PIN I refuse to even go to one of their meets - I can't stand upsells or anything that benefits the organisers of an event more than the participants that are there to (supposedly) learn. 

 

These things are clearly set up not educate or help, but to put the more desperate/less intelligent into a very expensive sales funnel. 

 

Makes me very grateful for The Property Hub.

[Loose Chippings Property]

Fielding Financial have a similar business model.

 

I heard of one couple who spent up to £40,000 on "advice & mentor ship" etc - but still haven't bought anything!

[Maria B]

hi Nick,

I'm new to this site and just run into this post. We'll attend this course in two weeks time mainly for a summarized information, a lead how to start. We do not want to see more into it. I see that you wrote that post half a year ago. I just wonder. Could you put any of their advice into action since then? Was it inspirational enough for you to start your property business? Thanks if you reply. 

[Lee Dee]

I've never noticed this thread before; thanks very much to the OP for posting.

It reminds me very much of something that happened to me once.

A couple of years ago, we had to attend a wedding abroad and my wife signed us up for one of those cheap holidays which has attendance at a sales event as a condition of stay. Cue a whole afternoon of being shown round the complex, and hammered with sales patter exhorting us to buy one of their timeshares. When the time came to make a decision, I stated that I needed some time to think about it (I didn't, obviously). They said it was a one-time offer but I held firm and told them that I wasn't prepared to make a decision there and then. They seemed dismayed, then they drove us back to the apartment and didn't contact us ever again! They wouldn't even allow us to take the details of the offer out of the room.

On reflection it was a terrible deal, but they were clearly playing a numbers game as there were dozens of couples being shown round at the same time as us. I hate to think how many of them fell for it.

Oh, and I've been to car auctions where they accepted phantom bids up to a reserve. I'm afraid it is legal. Random fact: I was told the practice is called "trotting".

[NickBoaz]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for all your replies! I apologise for not replying for a long time. I started a new job in the spring and have been flat out.

 

As an update following the course, we haven't done anything! Well, I say that; we are currently looking to sell both our houses to fund the purchase of a distressed detached house with the view to adding some good value. It will be our primary residence and act as a stepping stone to creating cash; we are not keen on borrowing (mortgages aside) so would rather go down this route to raise cash for future btls. I have continued to educate myself, including the podcast on here, the webinars and so on. I have to confess to not getting along to any more meet ups, but the Leamington Spa meet is close to me so I plan to get up there soon!

 

Separately, we have looked at a few potential flips, one needed underpinning, one amazing auction Victorian terraced that hadn't been touched in 50+ years (rotten and missing floor boards in the kitchen...), one 5 bed hmo that was distressed but needed £100k leaving in it, couple of other more straight forward refurbs. In all cases (except the hmo..), if the cash in my house was in my bank I'd have gone for it. Looking at them, and going through the processes, number crunching, researching fundamentals, all very good experience and builds confidence! 

 

Cheers all!

 

Nick.

[Chris Johnson]

Its certainly true it will cost you an arm and a leg to proceed under their direction. As tempting as it seems to find a miracle route to Financial Independence in 2 years or whatever they're claiming , life isn't like that. You'd be better off subscribing to the Property Hub , taking the time to educate yourself and invest according to your means .  I asked them if they'd indemnify themselves against my downpayment for further courses seeing it was 'guaranteed to bring success' . Funnily enough they weren't prepared to do so !   

[NickBoaz]

Ditto what Johno says.

 

They promise you a mentor, digging into it the mentor is only obligated to be your mentor for 30 days. How many property transactions are you going to complete in 30 days? Let alone profiting from them....

 

It's an interesting baseline to start from. Buy books, read this forum, listen to podcasts and so on. Empower yourself! 

[Maria B]

We've been to the 3 days training what we enjoyed. There was sale but there were more information. We really enjoyed it, our trainer was fantastic and we went away with our head buzzing. 

 

We did sign up for their courses that time but we only put down a deposit. 

 

After that training I started to dig into property investing, found other companies doing training too and also went to property network events. I found them fantastic and finally we've decided that we wanted to go with other training providers. They suited us more. 

We tried to get the money back from Tigrent/Elite unsuccessfully but they transferred us to an online webinar series plus a 12 week coaching. The webinars are good however it's missing the vibe that you get when you attend to a live training which is an important factor. I don't know much about the coaching yet as I only asked about the coach but did not receive any satisfying answer. I'm a bit worried about it as all the coaches who's profiles I got were from South Africa. They are investing in the UK too but still not comforting to me. 

 

The "be financially free within 1-2 year" and "start it without you own money" are really something you need to see with your own eyes to believe. It took me 5 month to understand that it is actually possible and what they say is true. If you open your horizon to meet more people who are in it and talking about this staff willingly not just because they want to sell you something or they got a commission for it, but because they seriously done it, then you see what it is about. 

I actually also doubted the trainer we had on the Elite 3 days but now I see that he was dead serious about everything he said and was honest when he said he didn't do it only for the money. Well.... on the other hand I'm a trainer myself and also know what kind of adrenaline one got after a training like this. I myself would do it too even if I was a millionaire. 

 

I would say go out there and find what is most suitable for you. Believe people only who's done it and not Joe from the pub who heard about it hence he knows it can't be done. It is a lot of hard work especially in the first 1-2 year but if you follow their system it can be done. 

I haven't done much though just tested a few things and surprisingly we found people who are seriously (not just saying) wants to JV with us or were interested in the services we're providing for them.  

 

There are plenty of strategies out there that can improve the cash flow without investing a lot of money. They won't give you equity but will give you a business with a system in place and later you can start to move into strategies that will also build the equity too. What I see is that Legacy does not really show you everything and concentrates on the old staff that I think nowadays only work up north. However you can do something in every area of the country just need to learn about them. 

 

I would recommend to go to the 3 day course because I've found it really mind blowing but don't sign up for anything just yet. Have a look around, plenty of training providers out there, some of them really good. They also provide mentorship/coaching, some even have money back guarantee. Join some facebook groups, go the networking event and you'll gradually grow to the idea. I'm sure you will find the best strategy and see how it goes really. 

 

[TuesdayGirl]

This sounds like a course I attended in Spring this year. It wasn't a property course ("Millionaire Mindset, based on T Harv Eker's principles) but there was a free 3 day course which gave some useful tips, but half the time was spent upselling, with a number of worrying tactics used to do so. They had carefully located 'plants' around the room who'd dash to grab the first few discounted courses, creating a sense of urgency but also making you feel you'd miss out if you didn't jump quick. They'd then focus on making you believe you really couldn't possibly be committed if you weren't going to invest in (their) education. Finally they took to bullying and humiliation, even to the point of guarding the doors and forcing you to sit through a hard sell tirade at the end of a very long day, when you were tired, hungry and much more compliant.

 

This type of approach is becoming more and more widespread unfortunately and they often prey on those who can least afford it. There were a number of people on the Millionaire Mindset course who'd been on it a number of years running and had invested in a wide number of other courses too.....and yet still hadn't actually made any changes or put any of the teachings into action.

 

While I agree with the poster above that these courses can leave you with a buzz just from being in a group of similarly minded people for a few days, but the value of that is subjective. Personally I've found much better education and motivation on the internet and sites like this (loving the podcasts!).

 

Thanks for your honest feedback on the course Nick, I had waivered wondering about going on the free taster course, I think I'll stick to podcasts...

[Lloyd Rayner]

Hi all,

 

Wanted to add my views on the Legacy / Rich Dad property training course. NOTE: This is based solely on my experience.

 

Having read the rich dad book I was intrigued to find a 'Rich Dad Property Course' for half a day in Manchester. I knew this taster course was free and expected to be sold to but decided to attend anyway to see what it was all about. The taster session was a great few hours, covering the basics of property and certainly got me thinking more about investing. At the end of this session we were told there was a 3 day course costing £1,000. The costs covered attendance for 2 people and a 'free' tablet. Uncertain of whether to proceed I decided to part with my cash and signed up. 

 

Prior to the 3 day course we were given a 'Property Strategy Call', packaged up as a 25 minute call with an expert who would give you the prep so you could hit the ground running on day 1. Personally I found this call a complete waste of time and if I'm being honest it did make me doubt my purchase. 

 

These doubts were completely dismissed when I attended the course itself. The 3 days were great, full of information, motivation and some really good property examples. Being new to the property game it really opened my eyes to all the different strategies and the possibilities which can be realized through property. Throughout the 3 days there were hints that another expert package was available to purchase and the presenters made it apparent they were trying to up-sell. There were numerous times when questions were asked and answered only with 'don't worry, that will be covered in the 'momentum' course. It was repeatedly mentioned that in property your 'Power Team' is a vital element to ensure success (which I agree with) and during their pitch we were told that we would have access to the same power team as used by all the team. Their details would be given if we signed up to the next course and this alone was worth £20,000.

 

The additional packages ranged from £9k - £36k, the difference in cost being the number of training courses that were included and whether a mentor was provided. Personally I think these prices are extreme, the presenters mentioned the prices are as such to deter anyone who isn't serious about taking the next steps. I disagree with this, personally I think the prices are just ridiculous. In my opinion £25k (the average price paid) for an none-proven training package is far from reasonable. Surprisingly I couldn't find any reviews online from anyone who had completed the full package.

 

To summarize, I found the 3 day course very beneficial and would certainly recommend it to anyone starting out in property. This recommendation comes with a warning to expect to be sold to. Make your mind up as to whether you are willing to take the full package prior to the 3 day course. The 3 day environment is designed in such a way that you buy into the product without question. Large profit margins are repeatedly shown as a way to lessen the blow of £25k, 'guests' are brought in to talk about their experiences of the course and subtle hints are mentioned throughout the 3 days to make you think that success is a certain. My decision was to not take the extra course, made solely due to the costs. Do I think I would learn a lot? Yes. Do I think I would learn anything I couldn't find out from such forums? No. Do I think the course is good value for money? For me no, for someone who maybe lacks vision and motivation.... debatable.

 

 

[NickBoaz]

Thanks for adding your experience LLoyd. It sounds like we think the same way.